307 and dead battery cell - is somebody having me on

Discussion in 'Peugeot 307' started by megapode, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. megapode

    megapode Guest

    Hi all,

    December last year my 307 (15 months old at the time) cut out whilst I
    was driving. All the electronics switched off, stayed off for maybe 2
    seconds, then came back on but the car wouldn't run and there was a
    smell of burning.

    Turns out it was the starter motor that had burned out - a problem that
    seems to be not unknown on the 307. The dealer changed the starter
    motor, but despite my objections did not try to ascertain why the thing
    had been spinning away in the first place.

    Last week same thing happens again - well according to me. But the
    dealer says that the car shut down because it detected a dead cell in
    the battery.

    Are they having me on? This would be the first car I've owned that
    would have this "feature". I can't dispute their findings about the
    battery but all I'd expect is that the car wouldn't start after
    stalling or being turned off. As it was the car had started happily
    enough about 10 minutes prior to the breakdown.

    And this seems like a pretty dubious "feature". What if I'd been in the
    middle of nowhere and the car had detected a dud cell in the battery
    and decided to shut itself down?
     
    megapode, Feb 22, 2005
    #1
  2. megapode

    G.T Guest

    Hi,
    A dead cell on the battery means that (in the common case of a broken cell)
    the voltage with no load will be approximatively good, but will drop
    slightly under load (you just find the nominal voltage of remaining cells,
    in case of 1 broken element on a 12V batt, it would be ~12V).
    With the huge load required by starter (over 1500W under 12V, you can plan
    on 100A) the battery's voltage should be approx. 7V or so (I guess some
    experienced car electricians will confirm that), anyway not enough to run
    the starter.
    The 307 brings a lot of electronics (CAN / VAN buses, microprocessors,
    memories and so on), which usually runs at 5V. Electronic elements don't
    like too low voltages, which may cause undesired operation & / or data
    corruption. That's the reason why embeeded electronics often have a voltage
    monitor which stops the system if the voltage is too low or too high. I
    don't think that's your problem, as when engine is running there is far
    enough voltage (approx. 13.5V) run car's electronics.

    If the car is still under warranty, try to have a replacement battery.
    Sometime it's just so strange you wouldn't have thought of this.
     
    G.T, Feb 22, 2005
    #2
  3. megapode

    Keith Guest

    I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because
    they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. I
    believe it was said to be a problem in the switch. Pug denied there was a
    problem but an independent expert said that he would not even park beside
    one.
     
    Keith, Feb 22, 2005
    #3
  4. megapode

    Androo Guest

    I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because

    Wasn't that s much as anything to do with the aluminium bonnet being
    flammable? I just have a vague memory of it.

    Androo
     
    Androo, Feb 22, 2005
    #4
  5. megapode

    Nik&Andy Guest

    WHAT!!! - I owned a volvo 760 estate for 5 years, that has a peugot v6
    engine under the hood and an aluminium one at that, that never caught fire.
    What a load of toss, a car cannot catch fire because it has an aluminium
    bonnet. More likely because it has french car electrics!

    Andy
     
    Nik&Andy, Feb 22, 2005
    #5
  6. megapode

    Puttputt Guest

    You could be on to something here....
    Teddyboy
     
    Puttputt, Feb 22, 2005
    #6
  7. megapode

    only_me Guest

    only_me, Feb 22, 2005
    #7
  8. megapode

    Malc Guest

    True. Mined ewe if the car got hot enough the aluminium would burn like
    magnesium (same periodic table group). I believe that's what happened to
    some of our ships in the Falklands. So if you see someone with an Exocet...
     
    Malc, Feb 22, 2005
    #8
  9. megapode

    megapode Guest

    And as noted, the car had started just a few minutes earlier.

    I told them that their explanation didn't fit the facts and that whilst
    I'm sure the battery is dodgy now that they're fixing the symptom not
    the problem. Dealer has checked further and now says that something in
    the car is causing an abnormally high load on the battery.

    29111 Ks on the clock and 4th time in the garage (excluding scheduled
    maintenance). A pity as it's a great car to drive. This is the most
    trouble I've ever had with a car, and I'm trading this one in once it's
    fixed. Probably I'll go for the Civic hatch - bland but reliable.

    Thanks for the reply.
     
    megapode, Feb 23, 2005
    #9
  10. megapode

    megapode Guest

    Yep. They're denying it here (South Africa) too. Crazy... this car had
    29111 km when it got to the dealer on Friday and will be on it's 3rd
    starter - which must be costing somebody money. Why don't they just fix
    whatever the actual problem is and save some money?

    Thanks for the reply

    Bob
     
    megapode, Feb 23, 2005
    #10
  11. megapode

    G.T Guest

    Hi,
    a
    There was a problem with the switch (metal particles into the steering
    lock), which affected almost all 307s built until 2003 IIRC. This caused a
    recall from Peugeot. Most of times, the fail consisted of a blocked unit (no
    way to turn the key), sometimes blocked while in D (starter) position.
    The problem should be corrected for a while.
    I have to say that a starter staying on (i.e current into the solenoid, this
    involving the starter to run (like on any car)) makes a terrific noise. And
    I'm surprised the "victims" just don't hear it ! Just test it if you don't
    believe me, apply the starter until the engine runs, and keep on running the
    starter a little while after... 1 second should be far enough.
    Sometimes, what the independant experts say doesn't worth a penny. Aluminium
    starts to fond around 600°C (1112°F) if I remember my physics lessons
    correctly, and the only occasion to have it damaged is when the whole car
    burns (or the engine burns, as we're talking about the bonnet).

    My brother told me he saw a stolen Audi A8 which was burnt by the thugs, it
    was pretty low when it came back to the garage (like the roof at the level
    of the dashboard). Full aluminium bodikit, of course.
     
    G.T, Feb 23, 2005
    #11
  12. megapode

    Chris Guest

    The fault is caused by the ignition key switch sticking in the starter "ON"
    position causing the starter motor to run continually.
    The very high current heats up the wiring and electrics etc. A fire is then
    caused.
    My own 307 was recalled for a new switch before this occured. It should have
    been done some time ago.
     
    Chris, Feb 23, 2005
    #12
  13. megapode

    G.T Guest

    Hi,
    Of course. I read my post and saw that I explained the sticky steering lock
    problem, whitout explaining why a fire can occur.
     
    G.T, Feb 24, 2005
    #13
  14. megapode

    megapode Guest

    Latest story is "the manufacturer left some bits out of the starter
    motor". Which is so implausible it might actually be true.

    However Pegueot are not willing to give a copy of the job card or any
    kind of service record other than a stamp in the hand book for a 30 000
    km service. Which is pretty odd.

    In case anybody's about to ask - no, I don't have the car back yet.
     
    megapode, Feb 25, 2005
    #14
  15. megapode

    Nik&Andy Guest

    You see, more French car electrics! - Why can't French car manufacturers get
    the electrics correct?
    There mechanicals are usually top notch.

    Andy
     
    Nik&Andy, Mar 1, 2005
    #15
  16. How do you mean? Like the british? LOL
    I grew up with British cars. My father has been driving Jaguar since I
    was a baby. You know, why the XJ6 had twin fuel tanks and twin fuel
    pumps? So that normally one of the fuel pumps would work. And if none of
    them worked, you would have to open the luggage compartment and tap them
    with a screwdriver or something. That would often help. Only trouble is,
    that occasionally one of the fuel tanks would leak, and one of the fuel
    meters didn't work. And it was a little erratic, which faults applied to
    which fuel tank.
    As an American once wrote in his signature: Lucas invented the
    intermittent wiper. And the intermittent headlights, the intermittent
    starter, the intermittent fuel pump etc.
    But I can see, you have solved the problem with British car
    electrics efficiently: By shutting down the entire British car industry.
     
    Henrik Münster, Mar 13, 2005
    #16
  17. The electrics and any other bought-in components on any car, regardless of
    nationality, are as good as the manufacturer of that car is willing to pay
    for.

    Ron Robinson
     
    R.N. Robinson, Mar 14, 2005
    #17
  18. megapode

    Keith Guest

    And are probably made in China anyway.
     
    Keith, Mar 14, 2005
    #18
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