307 and dead battery cell - is somebody having me on

Hi all,

December last year my 307 (15 months old at the time) cut out whilst I
was driving. All the electronics switched off, stayed off for maybe 2
seconds, then came back on but the car wouldn't run and there was a
smell of burning.

Turns out it was the starter motor that had burned out - a problem that
seems to be not unknown on the 307. The dealer changed the starter
motor, but despite my objections did not try to ascertain why the thing
had been spinning away in the first place.

Last week same thing happens again - well according to me. But the
dealer says that the car shut down because it detected a dead cell in
the battery.

Are they having me on? This would be the first car I've owned that
would have this "feature". I can't dispute their findings about the
battery but all I'd expect is that the car wouldn't start after
stalling or being turned off. As it was the car had started happily
enough about 10 minutes prior to the breakdown.

And this seems like a pretty dubious "feature". What if I'd been in the
middle of nowhere and the car had detected a dud cell in the battery
and decided to shut itself down?

 

Hi,

A dead cell on the battery means that (in the common case of a broken cell)
the voltage with no load will be approximatively good, but will drop
slightly under load (you just find the nominal voltage of remaining cells,
in case of 1 broken element on a 12V batt, it would be ~12V).
With the huge load required by starter (over 1500W under 12V, you can plan
on 100A) the battery's voltage should be approx. 7V or so (I guess some
experienced car electricians will confirm that), anyway not enough to run
the starter.

The 307 brings a lot of electronics (CAN / VAN buses, microprocessors,
memories and so on), which usually runs at 5V. Electronic elements don't
like too low voltages, which may cause undesired operation & / or data
corruption. That's the reason why embeeded electronics often have a voltage
monitor which stops the system if the voltage is too low or too high. I
don't think that's your problem, as when engine is running there is far
enough voltage (approx. 13.5V) run car's electronics.

If the car is still under warranty, try to have a replacement battery.
Sometime it's just so strange you wouldn't have thought of this.

 

I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because
they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. I
believe it was said to be a problem in the switch. Pug denied there was a
problem but an independent expert said that he would not even park beside
one.

 

I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because

Wasn't that s much as anything to do with the aluminium bonnet being
flammable? I just have a vague memory of it.

Androo

 

WHAT!!! - I owned a volvo 760 estate for 5 years, that has a peugot v6
engine under the hood and an aluminium one at that, that never caught fire.
What a load of toss, a car cannot catch fire because it has an aluminium
bonnet. More likely because it has french car electrics!

Andy

 

You could be on to something here....
Teddyboy

 

its a vague memory no more ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/reports/transport11.shtml

 

True. Mined ewe if the car got hot enough the aluminium would burn like
magnesium (same periodic table group). I believe that's what happened to
some of our ships in the Falklands. So if you see someone with an Exocet...

 

And as noted, the car had started just a few minutes earlier.

I told them that their explanation didn't fit the facts and that whilst
I'm sure the battery is dodgy now that they're fixing the symptom not
the problem. Dealer has checked further and now says that something in
the car is causing an abnormally high load on the battery.

29111 Ks on the clock and 4th time in the garage (excluding scheduled
maintenance). A pity as it's a great car to drive. This is the most
trouble I've ever had with a car, and I'm trading this one in once it's
fixed. Probably I'll go for the Civic hatch - bland but reliable.

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yep. They're denying it here (South Africa) too. Crazy... this car had
29111 km when it got to the dealer on Friday and will be on it's 3rd
starter - which must be costing somebody money. Why don't they just fix
whatever the actual problem is and save some money?

Thanks for the reply

Bob

 

Hi,

a
There was a problem with the switch (metal particles into the steering
lock), which affected almost all 307s built until 2003 IIRC. This caused a
recall from Peugeot. Most of times, the fail consisted of a blocked unit (no
way to turn the key), sometimes blocked while in D (starter) position.
The problem should be corrected for a while.
I have to say that a starter staying on (i.e current into the solenoid, this
involving the starter to run (like on any car)) makes a terrific noise. And
I'm surprised the "victims" just don't hear it ! Just test it if you don't
believe me, apply the starter until the engine runs, and keep on running the
starter a little while after... 1 second should be far enough.

Sometimes, what the independant experts say doesn't worth a penny. Aluminium
starts to fond around 600°C (1112°F) if I remember my physics lessons
correctly, and the only occasion to have it damaged is when the whole car
burns (or the engine burns, as we're talking about the bonnet).

My brother told me he saw a stolen Audi A8 which was burnt by the thugs, it
was pretty low when it came back to the garage (like the roof at the level
of the dashboard). Full aluminium bodikit, of course.

 

The fault is caused by the ignition key switch sticking in the starter "ON"
position causing the starter motor to run continually.
The very high current heats up the wiring and electrics etc. A fire is then
caused.
My own 307 was recalled for a new switch before this occured. It should have
been done some time ago.

 

Hi,

Of course. I read my post and saw that I explained the sticky steering lock
problem, whitout explaining why a fire can occur.

 

Latest story is "the manufacturer left some bits out of the starter
motor". Which is so implausible it might actually be true.

However Pegueot are not willing to give a copy of the job card or any
kind of service record other than a stamp in the hand book for a 30 000
km service. Which is pretty odd.

In case anybody's about to ask - no, I don't have the car back yet.

 

You see, more French car electrics! - Why can't French car manufacturers get
the electrics correct?
There mechanicals are usually top notch.

Andy

 

How do you mean? Like the british? LOL
I grew up with British cars. My father has been driving Jaguar since I
was a baby. You know, why the XJ6 had twin fuel tanks and twin fuel
pumps? So that normally one of the fuel pumps would work. And if none of
them worked, you would have to open the luggage compartment and tap them
with a screwdriver or something. That would often help. Only trouble is,
that occasionally one of the fuel tanks would leak, and one of the fuel
meters didn't work. And it was a little erratic, which faults applied to
which fuel tank.
As an American once wrote in his signature: Lucas invented the
intermittent wiper. And the intermittent headlights, the intermittent
starter, the intermittent fuel pump etc.
But I can see, you have solved the problem with British car
electrics efficiently: By shutting down the entire British car industry.

 

The electrics and any other bought-in components on any car, regardless of
nationality, are as good as the manufacturer of that car is willing to pay
for.

Ron Robinson

 

And are probably made in China anyway.