[205] - Replacing 1360cc TU3S engine with 1.6GTi engine

Discussion in 'Peugeot 205' started by Matt, Oct 15, 2003.

  1. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Hi all,

    Just out of curiosity (as something I'd like to do in a couple of years time
    maybe) - how hard is it to put a 1.6GTi lump in place of a TU3S lump? What's
    involved?

    I'm picking on the 1.6 rather than the 1.9 as I would have to uprate brakes
    and all sorts for the 1.9.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    --
    1991 Peugeot 205 Roland Garros Cabriolet
    TU3S 1.4 Carb
    http://www.205rolandgarros.co.uk
    2003 - Happy 20th Birthday Peugeot 205
    SETI Team "Peugeot 205" Founder (and only!) Member
    http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_152225.html
    ==
     
    Matt, Oct 15, 2003
    #1
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  2. Matt

    Carl Gibbs Guest

    Being as its an XU rather than TU the engine mounts may be different.
    You'll need a new rad (bigger one), lots of wiring to put in (unless you ran
    it on carbs), new exhuast system (GTi ones are far bigger in dimater), new
    gearbox oboviously, and driveshafts. I'd assume the hubs would be the same,
    but would be worth checking too.
    Dunno what brakes the Roland Garos has, but if they're solid up front, then
    you will need to uprate them, whatever engine you put in. Incidentally i
    may know of a set of vented 106 XSi brakes (straight swap). The GTi also
    has bigger drums at the rear, but you can probably get away with the
    standard RG drums. Then you need to look at suspension. IMHO standard
    non-GTi suspension wont be up to handling the extra weight/power of the GTi
    engine. I would recommend swaping the front sub-frame to a GTi/Dturbo one,
    which will give you the extra mounting point to put stronger lower wishbones
    in, rather than the skinny ones you're RG has probably got (assuming its the
    same os the XS). A new set of dampers should sort out the rear suspension
    (although you might want to lower a bit, in which case you'll have to hope
    the torsion bars arent ceased up).

    The actual engine swap isnt too hard, just a matter of getting everything
    out the way, its uprating everythign that will take the time/money. You'll
    probably find it easier to turn a CTi into a RG rather than the other way
    round! Or tune the TU3S (GMC Motorsport have lots of bits for TU lumps, not
    that i've been pricing stuff up ;)), or swap it for a TU3 MPi engine.

    HTH
    --
     
    Carl Gibbs, Oct 15, 2003
    #2
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  3. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Hmmm - more work than I realised then! I'd figured the suspension and brakes
    would be up to the job.

    On a non-related note, did you get your head skimmed? (on the car that is!)
    Did you get the email I sent you back with the details of the one I used for
    the job?

    PS : Anyone got any Roland Garros seats for sale? :)
    Can anyone confirm that 306 seats will fit in a 205? I seem to remember
    seeing one that had them but not sure.

    Cheers,
    Matt
    --
    1991 Peugeot 205 Roland Garros Cabriolet
    TU3S 1.4 Carb
    http://www.205rolandgarros.co.uk
    2003 - Happy 20th Birthday Peugeot 205
    SETI Team "Peugeot 205" Founder (and only!) Member
    http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_152225.html
    ==
     
    Matt, Oct 15, 2003
    #3
  4. Matt

    Carl Gibbs Guest

    Hmmm - more work than I realised then! I'd figured the suspension and
    brakes
    Not if you want to take corners at speed, and theres no way i'd trust those
    brakes with a GTi engine sat above them! You could probably get away with
    uprating the dampers (and maybe springs) at the front, but if it was me i
    would prefer to have the stronger set up.
    Easy tiger!
    Never got the head skimmed, but i think i did get your email. That was ages
    ago wasnt it? I've still got the 106 cam in the head at the mo, as i havent
    had the money/time to do the TU3S head up. All my spare money has gone into
    the rear hubs/brakes (now completely new), and the new front brakes (vented,
    but the bleed nipples snapped off both calipers, so havent gone on the car
    yet). TBH the engines loosened up a bit now, although still doesnt rev like
    it used to. But after going head to head with another XS, it was a dead
    heat from 0 till about 80 which i was quite happy with.
     
    Carl Gibbs, Oct 15, 2003
    #4
  5. Matt

    Ollie Walsh Guest

    Re 306 seats in 205, I don't think it's a straight swop, I think the
    mounting points are different. I'll check tomorrow. If they are
    different, it might be possible to swop the seat subframes, then they
    should fit straight in.

    Ollie
     
    Ollie Walsh, Oct 15, 2003
    #5
  6. Matt

    Ahgowonwidya Guest

    You'll
    Modify the existing all alloy gt lump.
    285 degree kent cam, both jets 8 percent larger, k and n, cold air feeds,
    exhaust
    and then bung on a low geared gearbox from a pug xs (3750rpm at 70mph).
    It will go all the way to 125mph (maximum) without the usual "slowing"
    above 100mph.

    0-100mph an impressive 18.5 seconds.
    Boot throttle and waste anything above on the motorway at any speed.

    And yes, my axgt IS faster to 100mph than my bmw 730i AND my low geared
    long stroking tyre smokin' 525eta. (Low geared, as opposed to its normal
    100mph
    at 3000rpm).

    I doubt if a 1.6 conversion would do 0-100mph in 18.5 seconds .... unless
    you
    then start tuning the pug lump.

    And to think ... i'm selling my modded ax soon .... to finance a
    supercharger kit
    for the longstroke!!

    --
    Regards
    SDD

    Warning: Email reply address is a spamtrap,
    remove teeth to reply directly !!!!
     
    Ahgowonwidya, Oct 16, 2003
    #6
  7. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    ;-)

    I was actually thinking of doing this in a couple of years, not for
    performance but for reliability in case my engine starts to go. It's on 130k
    miles and running well at the moment but I don't know how it will be in a
    couple of years! It's never been rebuilt or anything, but then again, it's
    never (to my knowledge) bee thrashed.

    I'd spotted that there are still some 1.6GTi engines knocking around for not
    much money, even on low mileage. Just saw a 67k mile engine go for 130 quid
    on eBay.

    I could also consider putting a TU lump from a 106 in which I guess would be
    easier to do.

    Cheers!
    Matt
    --
    1991 Peugeot 205 Roland Garros Cabriolet
    TU3S 1.4 Carb
    http://www.205rolandgarros.co.uk
    2003 - Happy 20th Birthday Peugeot 205
    SETI Team "Peugeot 205" Founder (and only!) Member
    http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_152225.html
    ==
     
    Matt, Oct 16, 2003
    #7
  8. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Quite a while now yes.
    Cool - does the 106 cam give you any specific advantages elsewhere?
    Now that's not a bad idea!
    Yep - wasn't there an SPi in the 205 too that actually had less power than
    my current lump (especially because of the cat).
    I'd guess there's a bit of wiring to patch together if I put an MPi engine
    in. BTW - Is the MPi from a 106?

    Matt
    --
    1991 Peugeot 205 Roland Garros Cabriolet
    TU3S 1.4 Carb
    http://www.205rolandgarros.co.uk
    2003 - Happy 20th Birthday Peugeot 205
    SETI Team "Peugeot 205" Founder (and only!) Member
    http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_152225.html
    ==
     
    Matt, Oct 16, 2003
    #8
  9. Matt

    Carl Gibbs Guest

    Havent really noticed any difference apart from the lack of top end.
    Probably got a bit more torque lower down.
    I've read is some places there was a 1.4i in some 205s, but i've never
    really been able to confirm that.
    In reality i shouldnt think the wiring would be *that* difficult, its not
    the most complex of engines, its just finding somewhere to mount the ECU
    thats safe and not damp (maybe where the jack would normally be). Sorting
    the instrumentation out maybe a problem, as i'm not sure if the 106 wiring
    would fit onto a 205 dash. If a set of 106 mk1 clocks would fit into a 205
    hole then you'd be laughing. The MPi engine was found in mk1 106 XSis (know
    that for a fact). Dunno whether they went into the mk2s or not, because was
    mk2 106 XSi had the less powerful, but more torquey 1.6 8v lump (i think).
    May have turned up in the saxo too, but i'm dont think it went into anything
    else (although the BX, i think, had a 1.4 at one point, dunno what engine
    that was though). Oh, and of course the AX GTi (how could i forget that
    one)

    The 1.3 TU from a Rallye is another good swap if you can find a decent one
    for good money (quite unlikely i know).

    If you engine is getting a bit tiresome, then i'd say just swap it for one
    of the above. If the engine is in good nick, then you could get more or
    less the same results by tuning it. I'd say your first port of call would
    be new carb(s). But definately give it a go yourself. if you've got some
    mechanical know-how its well worth getting under there and giving it a go
    yourself. I learnt a lot of stuff from my dad, but when it came to changing
    engine/gearboxes (or anything for that matter) a good selection of tools, a
    Haynes, a bit of guess work and a lot of swearing is all you'll need.
    Ultimately its quite satisfying knowing that you've done everything on your
    car yourself (well for me it is anyway).
     
    Carl Gibbs, Oct 16, 2003
    #9
  10. Matt

    Matt Guest

    I saw a very late 205CJ that had the 1.4SPi engine on eBay a while ago.
    I remember seeing on the web a while ago some guy with a 205XS that he'd put
    a 106 1.6GTi engine in - it flew - in fact, it flew straight off the road
    and he wrote it off!!! Kept the engine for the next one he bought!
    I think most of those have been screwed by now!
    Well so far, the engine runs really nice - carb needs adjusting (mixture and
    idle) - but other than that it's not bad at the moment. After having a full
    gasket set change and the head skim (and a new battery) it transformed
    itself - even more so when I recently replaced the dizzy cap, rotor arm and
    leads.
    Maybe a good idea as I guess by 130k the current one is a bit gammed up.
    That's what I've started doing since I got this car last summer - I was
    pretty hopeless mechanically for a long time (could manage oil/filter
    change) but I'm trying to get better by trial and error. Appear to be having
    a few more errors of late though!!!
    :)
    Yep, there's a surprising amount of "blue air" around here when I'm working
    on the Pug!!!
    ....and me!

    Cheers!
    Matt
    --
    1991 Peugeot 205 Roland Garros Cabriolet
    TU3S 1.4 Carb
    http://www.205rolandgarros.co.uk
    2003 - Happy 20th Birthday Peugeot 205
    SETI Team "Peugeot 205" Founder (and only!) Member
    http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_152225.html
    ==
     
    Matt, Oct 17, 2003
    #10
  11. Matt

    Carl Gibbs Guest

    yeah, i remember seeing that, bloody good idea!. didnt realise he wrote it
    off though. oooooops!
     
    Carl Gibbs, Oct 17, 2003
    #11
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