[205] - Replacing 1360cc TU3S engine with 1.6GTi engine

[Matt]

Hi all,

Just out of curiosity (as something I'd like to do in a couple of years time maybe) - how hard is it to put a 1.6GTi lump in place of a TU3S lump? What's involved?

I'm picking on the 1.6 rather than the 1.9 as I would have to uprate brakes and all sorts for the 1.9.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Carl Gibbs]

Hi all,

Just out of curiosity (as something I'd like to do in a couple of years time maybe) - how hard is it to put a 1.6GTi lump in place of a TU3S lump? What's involved?

Being as its an XU rather than TU the engine mounts may be different. You'll need a new rad (bigger one), lots of wiring to put in (unless you ran it on carbs), new exhuast system (GTi ones are far bigger in dimater), new gearbox oboviously, and driveshafts. I'd assume the hubs would be the same, but would be worth checking too.

I'm picking on the 1.6 rather than the 1.9 as I would have to uprate brakes and all sorts for the 1.9.

Dunno what brakes the Roland Garos has, but if they're solid up front, then you will need to uprate them, whatever engine you put in. Incidentally i may know of a set of vented 106 XSi brakes (straight swap). The GTi also has bigger drums at the rear, but you can probably get away with the standard RG drums. Then you need to look at suspension. IMHO standard non-GTi suspension wont be up to handling the extra weight/power of the GTi engine. I would recommend swaping the front sub-frame to a GTi/Dturbo one, which will give you the extra mounting point to put stronger lower wishbones in, rather than the skinny ones you're RG has probably got (assuming its the same os the XS). A new set of dampers should sort out the rear suspension (although you might want to lower a bit, in which case you'll have to hope the torsion bars arent ceased up).

The actual engine swap isnt too hard, just a matter of getting everything out the way, its uprating everythign that will take the time/money. You'll probably find it easier to turn a CTi into a RG rather than the other way round! Or tune the TU3S (GMC Motorsport have lots of bits for TU lumps, not that i've been pricing stuff up ), or swap it for a TU3 MPi engine.

HTH

 

[Matt]

Hmmm - more work than I realised then! I'd figured the suspension and brakes would be up to the job.

On a non-related note, did you get your head skimmed? (on the car that is!) Did you get the email I sent you back with the details of the one I used for the job?

PS : Anyone got any Roland Garros seats for sale?
Can anyone confirm that 306 seats will fit in a 205? I seem to remember seeing one that had them but not sure.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Carl Gibbs]

Hmmm - more work than I realised then! I'd figured the suspension and brakes

would be up to the job.

Not if you want to take corners at speed, and theres no way i'd trust those brakes with a GTi engine sat above them! You could probably get away with uprating the dampers (and maybe springs) at the front, but if it was me i would prefer to have the stronger set up.

On a non-related note, did you get your head skimmed? (on the car that is!) Did you get the email I sent you back with the details of the one I used for the job?

Easy tiger!
Never got the head skimmed, but i think i did get your email. That was ages ago wasnt it? I've still got the 106 cam in the head at the mo, as i havent had the money/time to do the TU3S head up. All my spare money has gone into the rear hubs/brakes (now completely new), and the new front brakes (vented, but the bleed nipples snapped off both calipers, so havent gone on the car yet). TBH the engines loosened up a bit now, although still doesnt rev like it used to. But after going head to head with another XS, it was a dead heat from 0 till about 80 which i was quite happy with.

PS : Anyone got any Roland Garros seats for sale?
Can anyone confirm that 306 seats will fit in a 205? I seem to remember seeing one that had them but not sure.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Ollie Walsh]

Hmmm - more work than I realised then! I'd figured the suspension and brakes would be up to the job.

On a non-related note, did you get your head skimmed? (on the car that is!) Did you get the email I sent you back with the details of the one I used for the job?

PS : Anyone got any Roland Garros seats for sale?
Can anyone confirm that 306 seats will fit in a 205? I seem to remember seeing one that had them but not sure.

Cheers,
Matt

Re 306 seats in 205, I don't think it's a straight swop, I think the mounting points are different. I'll check tomorrow. If they are different, it might be possible to swop the seat subframes, then they should fit straight in.

Ollie

 

[Ahgowonwidya]

You'll

probably find it easier to turn a CTi into a RG rather than the other way round! Or tune the TU3S (GMC Motorsport have lots of bits for TU lumps, not that i've been pricing stuff up ), or swap it for a TU3 MPi engine.

Modify the existing all alloy gt lump.
285 degree kent cam, both jets 8 percent larger, k and n, cold air feeds, exhaust and then bung on a low geared gearbox from a pug xs (3750rpm at 70mph). It will go all the way to 125mph (maximum) without the usual "slowing" above 100mph.

0-100mph an impressive 18.5 seconds.
Boot throttle and waste anything above on the motorway at any speed.

And yes, my axgt IS faster to 100mph than my bmw 730i AND my low geared long stroking tyre smokin' 525eta. (Low geared, as opposed to its normal 100mph at 3000rpm).

I doubt if a 1.6 conversion would do 0-100mph in 18.5 seconds .... unless you then start tuning the pug lump.

And to think ... i'm selling my modded ax soon .... to finance a supercharger kit for the longstroke!!

 

[Matt]

Modify the existing all alloy gt lump.
285 degree kent cam, both jets 8 percent larger, k and n, cold air feeds, exhaust and then bung on a low geared gearbox from a pug xs (3750rpm at 70mph). It will go all the way to 125mph (maximum) without the usual "slowing" above 100mph.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

;-)

I was actually thinking of doing this in a couple of years, not for performance but for reliability in case my engine starts to go. It's on 130k miles and running well at the moment but I don't know how it will be in a couple of years! It's never been rebuilt or anything, but then again, it's never (to my knowledge) bee thrashed.

I'd spotted that there are still some 1.6GTi engines knocking around for not much money, even on low mileage. Just saw a 67k mile engine go for 130 quid on eBay.

I could also consider putting a TU lump from a 106 in which I guess would be easier to do.

Cheers!
Matt

 

[Matt]

Easy tiger!


Never got the head skimmed, but i think i did get your email. That was ages ago wasnt it?

Quite a while now yes.

I've still got the 106 cam in the head at the mo, as i havent had the money/time to do the TU3S head up. All my spare money has gone into the rear hubs/brakes (now completely new), and the new front brakes (vented, but the bleed nipples snapped off both calipers, so havent gone on the car yet). TBH the engines loosened up a bit now, although still doesnt rev like it used to. But after going head to head with another XS, it was a dead heat from 0 till about 80 which i was quite happy with.

Cool - does the 106 cam give you any specific advantages elsewhere?

You'll probably find it easier to turn a CTi into a RG rather than the other way round!

Now that's not a bad idea!

Or tune the TU3S (GMC Motorsport have lots of bits for TU lumps, not that i've been pricing stuff up )
heh!

or swap it for a TU3 MPi engine.

Yep - wasn't there an SPi in the 205 too that actually had less power than my current lump (especially because of the cat). I'd guess there's a bit of wiring to patch together if I put an MPi engine in. BTW - Is the MPi from a 106?

Matt

 

[Carl Gibbs]

Quite a while now yes.

Cool - does the 106 cam give you any specific advantages elsewhere?

Havent really noticed any difference apart from the lack of top end. Probably got a bit more torque lower down.

Now that's not a bad idea!

Yep - wasn't there an SPi in the 205 too that actually had less power than my current lump (especially because of the cat). I'd guess there's a bit of wiring to patch together if I put an MPi engine in. BTW - Is the MPi from a 106?

I've read is some places there was a 1.4i in some 205s, but i've never really been able to confirm that. In reality i shouldnt think the wiring would be *that* difficult, its not the most complex of engines, its just finding somewhere to mount the ECU thats safe and not damp (maybe where the jack would normally be). Sorting the instrumentation out maybe a problem, as i'm not sure if the 106 wiring would fit onto a 205 dash. If a set of 106 mk1 clocks would fit into a 205 hole then you'd be laughing. The MPi engine was found in mk1 106 XSis (know that for a fact). Dunno whether they went into the mk2s or not, because was mk2 106 XSi had the less powerful, but more torquey 1.6 8v lump (i think). May have turned up in the saxo too, but i'm dont think it went into anything else (although the BX, i think, had a 1.4 at one point, dunno what engine that was though). Oh, and of course the AX GTi (how could i forget that one)

The 1.3 TU from a Rallye is another good swap if you can find a decent one for good money (quite unlikely i know).

If you engine is getting a bit tiresome, then i'd say just swap it for one of the above. If the engine is in good nick, then you could get more or less the same results by tuning it. I'd say your first port of call would be new carb(s). But definately give it a go yourself. if you've got some mechanical know-how its well worth getting under there and giving it a go yourself. I learnt a lot of stuff from my dad, but when it came to changing engine/gearboxes (or anything for that matter) a good selection of tools, a Haynes, a bit of guess work and a lot of swearing is all you'll need. Ultimately its quite satisfying knowing that you've done everything on your car yourself (well for me it is anyway).

 

[Matt]

I've read is some places there was a 1.4i in some 205s, but i've never really been able to confirm that.

I saw a very late 205CJ that had the 1.4SPi engine on eBay a while ago.

In reality i shouldnt think the wiring would be *that* difficult, its not the most complex of engines, its just finding somewhere to mount the ECU thats safe and not damp (maybe where the jack would normally be). Sorting the instrumentation out maybe a problem, as i'm not sure if the 106 wiring would fit onto a 205 dash. If a set of 106 mk1 clocks would fit into a 205 hole then you'd be laughing. The MPi engine was found in mk1 106 XSis (know that for a fact). Dunno whether they went into the mk2s or not, because was mk2 106 XSi had the less powerful, but more torquey 1.6 8v lump (i think). May have turned up in the saxo too, but i'm dont think it went into anything else (although the BX, i think, had a 1.4 at one point, dunno what engine that was though). Oh, and of course the AX GTi (how could i forget that one)

I remember seeing on the web a while ago some guy with a 205XS that he'd put a 106 1.6GTi engine in - it flew - in fact, it flew straight off the road and he wrote it off!!! Kept the engine for the next one he bought!

The 1.3 TU from a Rallye is another good swap if you can find a decent one for good money (quite unlikely i know).

I think most of those have been screwed by now!

If you engine is getting a bit tiresome, then i'd say just swap it for one of the above.

Well so far, the engine runs really nice - carb needs adjusting (mixture and idle) - but other than that it's not bad at the moment. After having a full gasket set change and the head skim (and a new battery) it transformed itself - even more so when I recently replaced the dizzy cap, rotor arm and leads.

If the engine is in good nick, then you could get more or less the same results by tuning it. I'd say your first port of call would be new carb(s).

Maybe a good idea as I guess by 130k the current one is a bit gammed up.

But definately give it a go yourself. if you've got some mechanical know-how its well worth getting under there and giving it a go yourself.

That's what I've started doing since I got this car last summer - I was pretty hopeless mechanically for a long time (could manage oil/filter change) but I'm trying to get better by trial and error. Appear to be having a few more errors of late though!!!

I learnt a lot of stuff from my dad, but when it came to changing engine/gearboxes (or anything for that matter) a good selection of tools, a Haynes, a bit of guess work and a lot of swearing is all you'll need.

Yep, there's a surprising amount of "blue air" around here when I'm working on the Pug!!!

Ultimately its quite satisfying knowing that you've done everything on your car yourself (well for me it is anyway).

....and me!

Cheers!
Matt

 

[Carl Gibbs]

I saw a very late 205CJ that had the 1.4SPi engine on eBay a while ago.

I remember seeing on the web a while ago some guy with a 205XS that he'd put a 106 1.6GTi engine in - it flew - in fact, it flew straight off the road and he wrote it off!!! Kept the engine for the next one he bought!

yeah, i remember seeing that, bloody good idea!. didnt realise he wrote it off though. oooooops!